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9 Year Old Accidently Shoots Instructor

9 Year Old Accidently Shoots Instructor

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13
~ 9 years ago Aug 27, '14 9:24pm

long article on CNN; but this stands out & speaks volumes IMO....

Bullets and Burgers is part of a tourism niche offering packages costing up to $1,000 to shoot different high-powered weapons. The range offers bachelorette parties, birthdays and weddings events. It is one of at least a dozen gun ranges in the Las Vegas area catering to tourists from around the world.

www.cnn.com/2014/08/ 26/us/arizona-girl-f atal-shooting-accide nt/index.html?h

I suppose the argument could be made that catering to tourists shouldn't present any special safety hazards - if the instructors are professional and safe; but in my opinion - much about shooting - especially for inexperienced shooters is attitude - and I just find it hard to imagine that the right attitude would be present in their general target clientele (Las Vegas tourists)

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 27, '14 9:38pm

Imo no one should be shooting automatic unless they have been trained.The problem with some of these operations are they apparently will let almost anyone shot fully auto. See the example of the Ma. case where the "instructor" was 15 and the boy shooting the micro uzi was 8.This is a recipe for disaster.I see no problem with reasonable rules for these places if they are open to the public.

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7
~ 9 years ago Aug 27, '14 9:53pm

I guess I am the only one who thinks that it was the parents' fault, and furthermore, they should go to jail. It was their decision to put that gun in the daughters hands, and they are responsible for the man's death. How is this different than leaving a loaded gun around for a child to pick-up and hurt or kill someone? That parent goes to jail. These parents need to go to jail .

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12
~ 9 years ago Aug 27, '14 10:36pm

I am going to have to agree with some of the posters. I have shot uzi, mac10, mp 5, and tec 9 in the past and I highly would not let any kids or beginners shoot them. These weapons tend to shoot upward making them less accurate for the casual shooter. I had to learn techniques to prevent these movements which is why I am not a fan of these weapons for beginners. I prefer the sbr rifles over these weapons. I learned to shoot rifles at 8 which I started out with the 22 magnum and eventually by 9 I started shooting deer caliber rounds such as 3030 winchester and 7 remington mmagnum. I have taken my 8 yr old shooting my ruger 22 rifle and my henry 22 lever action in the past with no issues.

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 8:49am

Interesting point of view... mine is that the instructor had the authority to say no to the girl, to the parents, and to the range owner, if anyone insisted on him instructing/allowing the girl to shoot the Uzi.

Had the girl shot herself, like in the Ma. case, or shot someone else, where would the legal sistem pin responsibility? I think it would be on the instructor, not the parents. Perhaps our resident lawyer @abisho1 can chime in his $0.02.

I'm still curious to find out all the facts here... if the instructor briefed the girl on how the gun worked, or if he simply put a machine gun in the girl's hand, tried semi-auto mode one time and then switched to full-auto... also, what's the skill level of the girl, prior to this event, and whether or not the parents were insisting on her shooting this gun or it was just because it was part of the "package."

I'm with @cpb210 on shooting full-auto... it's not for everybody and you definitively need some instruction (which is what was taken place, but obviously not done right), most people can't handle the muzzle rise, so your shots could easily end up flying over the bern, plus you need a lot of ammo to practice. And with a $200 tax added on top of the price and a six-plus month wait to get all the paperwork done, really not for me. But for those who have the money to get one, and pay for training from a good instructor that will teach them how to handle it safely, hey, more power to them...

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7
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 9:04am

the instructor made a couple of bad decisions that cost him his life that day. IMO no one should be going to jail and no one should have a finger pointed at them.

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14
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 9:13am

Such a sickening event for everyone involved.

The parents are responsible for this tragedy. You don't give a child that age a gun like that UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES to handle. The parents made the decision to allow their daughter to discharge that firearm and paid to let her. They showed real ignorance in making that choice.

Gun accidents can be prevented, I want to say 100% of the time. Most are the result of people not taking proper precautions with the firearm, leaving it unlocked in their homes, not following correct protocols when cleaning or storing and not following strictly all gun safety requirements.

Another reason for gun haters to try and justify their platform. Unfortunately, some of us who appreciate our firearms and do adhere to correct handling and safety continue having to justify our position due to idiots like these.

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15 OP
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 9:28am

Attached is a statistical analysis regarding gun ownership. Some of you may find it very informative.

www.gallup.com/poll/ 160223/men-married-s outherners-likely-gu n-owners.aspx

*Edit*

The above stats in a general sense might provide some insights in a parents comfort level regarding firearm usage by children. Of course the use of automatic weapons cannot be determined from this data.

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 9:31am

Attached is a statistical analysis regarding gun ownership. Some of you may find it very informative.

www.gallup.com/poll/ 160223/men-married-s outherners-likely-gu n-owners.aspx

I like the title of the article "Men, Married, Southerners Most Likely to Be Gun Owners"... What can I say? Check, check and check! I'll read it later... the boring conf call just ended and now I need to do real work...

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 10:14am

Interesting point of view... mine is that the instructor had the authority to say no to the girl, to the parents, and to the range owner, if anyone insisted on him instructing/allowing the girl to shoot the Uzi.

Had the girl shot herself, like in the Ma. case, or shot someone else, where would the legal sistem pin responsibility? I think it would be on the instructor, not the parents. Perhaps our resident lawyer @abisho1 can chime in his $0.02.

I'm still curious to find out all the facts here... if the instructor briefed the girl on how the gun worked, or if he simply put a machine gun in the girl's hand, tried semi-auto mode one time and then switched to full-auto... also, what's the skill level of the girl, prior to this event, and whether or not the parents were insisting on her shooting this gun or it was just because it was part of the "package."

I'm with @cpb210 on shooting full-auto... it's not for everybody and you definitively need some instruction (which is what was taken place, but obviously not done right), most people can't handle the muzzle rise, so your shots could easily end up flying over the bern, plus you need a lot of ammo to practice. And with a $200 tax added on top of the price and a six-plus month wait to get all the paperwork done, really not for me. But for those who have the money to get one, and pay for training from a good instructor that will teach them how to handle it safely, hey, more power to them...

If you really want to shot fully auto you should join the military and be a soldier, civilians really have no need for full auto.
jmo.It is like explosives, yes it maybe fun for people to watch things go boom, but should we have explosive ranges where you blow things up?The responsibility lies with all the adults involved in my opinion. The boy from Ma, and the instructor are now gone and nothing can bring them back,maybe some reasonable restrictions are called for.

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7
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 10:18am

maybe some reasonable restrictions are called for.

@Posterguy: holy *****!!! did you REALLY just type that in a gun thread?!?

Loading Image...

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 10:33am

Yes I did. I do not believe children should be firing full auto,I think it is a recipe for disaster.We are not talking about plinking with a .22 under adult supervision.
Round discharge-muzzle climb,next round more muzzle climb (maybe 22 times a second) and on and on till the weapon rises and is now capable of striking the operator or others if you are not trained to handle it.This happens in a flash.
It takes some strength , training and knowledge of how this works to control the weapon and I do not think 8 and 9 year olds can handle it.

And how did you get that picture of me?

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 1:34pm

- - - - - - - -
>> @Enzo,

Interesting point of view... mine is that the instructor had the authority to say no to the girl, to the parents, and to the range owner, if anyone insisted on him instructing/allowing the girl to shoot the Uzi.

Had the girl shot herself, like in the Ma. case, or shot someone else, where would the legal sistem pin responsibility? I think it would be on the instructor, not the parents. Perhaps our resident lawyer @abisho1 can chime in his $0.02.

I'm still curious to find out all the facts here... if the instructor briefed the girl on how the gun worked, or if he simply put a machine gun in the girl's hand, tried semi-auto mode one time and then switched to full-auto... also, what's the skill level of the girl, prior to this event, and whether or not the parents were insisting on her shooting this gun or it was just because it was part of the "package."

I'm with @cpb210 on shooting full-auto... it's not for everybody and you definitively need some instruction (which is what was taken place, but obviously not done right), most people can't handle the muzzle rise, so your shots could easily end up flying over the bern, plus you need a lot of ammo to practice. And with a $200 tax added on top of the price and a six-plus month wait to get all the paperwork done, really not for me. But for those who have the money to get one, and pay for training from a good instructor that will teach them how to handle it safely, hey, more power to them...

If you really want to shot fully auto you should join the military and be a soldier, civilians really have no need for full auto.
jmo.It is like explosives, yes it maybe fun for people to watch things go boom, but should we have explosive ranges where you blow things up?The responsibility lies with all the adults involved in my opinion. The boy from Ma, and the instructor are now gone and nothing can bring them back,maybe some reasonable restrictions are called for.

I've shot a full-auto already and, no, I am not in the military... and I don't believe this should be restricted only to members of the military. Hey, like I said before, full-autos are not for me... but how can I know if I don't get to shoot one first? It's already restricted enough alread, so what do you want? What are these "reasonable restrictions" you have in mind? BTW, "reasonable restrictions" sounds like an oxymoron...

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14
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 1:39pm

Reasonable restrictions ......

You have no idea the paperwork required to purchase a fully auto weapon and the background check required.... AND you must be a licensed dealer to even apply for a fully auto weapon....

It's more paperwork than buying a mortgage I can tell you that

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16
~ 9 years ago Aug 28, '14 3:43pm

Reasonable restrictions ......

You have no idea the paperwork required to purchase a fully auto weapon and the background check required.... AND you must be a licensed dealer to even apply for a fully auto weapon....

It's more paperwork than buying a mortgage I can tell you that

Good they should not be handing them out like candy.
@Sandman- a reasonable restriction would be no one under 16 fires full auto at these events.
Think of it like a facility which has go karts for kids and Bugatti Veyrons for adults.Would you want 8&9 year olds driving at 200 plus MPH.

Still feel that full auto should be military only-JMO

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