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Super Carriers Dismantled

Super Carriers Dismantled

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by: Ronnie Active Indicator LED Icon  OP 
~ 9 years ago   May 9, '14 7:56pm  
These aircraft carriers , USS FORRESTAL, USS SARATOGA, AND THE USS CONSTELLATION are being sold for scrap. Instead of destroyoing them, put them to use as prison. One on each coast. Think of the jobs this could create just servicing them with supplies. They housed over 5 thousand sailers.
Washington could utilize its assets in a better way, as opposed to paying $0.01 to have them destroyed.
spin,spin spin thats all they know how to do.
 
Thats my thoughts on the matter.
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macdaddy Active Indicator LED Icon 14
~ 9 years ago   May 9, '14 7:59pm  
Not nearly enough room on them
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iamfaithfulbeliever Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 9 years ago   May 9, '14 8:06pm  
Mac -
 
I disagree - it was plenty of room for the brave men who served our country.
 
Obviously way more than adequate for those who break our laws.
 

.
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macdaddy Active Indicator LED Icon 14
~ 9 years ago   May 9, '14 8:16pm  
No you don't understand, not enough room for air conditioning, pool tables , weight rooms, jogging track, saunas.....
All the creature comforts criminals get...
 
Not nearly enough room
 
👍
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redneck roy Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 9 years ago   May 9, '14 8:36pm  
bad idea. Anyone who has ever lived on one knows. Anyone who has visited one should understand.
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HumbleGirl Active Indicator LED Icon 14
~ 9 years ago   May 9, '14 10:11pm  
No way. At least consider the officers and workers who would have to be there too.
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cbp210 Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 9 years ago   May 10, '14 10:13am  
bad idea. Anyone who has ever lived on one knows. Anyone who has visited one should understand.
 
@redneck roy:
 
I agree
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r segraves Active Indicator LED Icon
~ 9 years ago   May 10, '14 11:50am  
Below is a review of the actions that caused the fire on the Forrestal in '67. Using WW II ammunition, some made as early as 1935. 134 killed. Lengthy but interesting.
 
Background[edit]
 
Forrestal had departed Norfolk, Virginia in early June 1967. Upon completion of the required inspections for the upcoming WESTPAC Cruise, she then went on to Brazil for a show of force. She then set sail around the horn of Africa, and went on to dock for a short while at Leyte Pier at N.A.S. Cubi Point in the Philippine Islands before sailing to "Yankee Station" in the Gulf of Tonkin on 25 July. For four days in the gulf, aircraft of Attack Carrier Air Wing 17 flew about 150 missions against targets in North Vietnam.
 
By 1967, the ongoing naval bombing campaign from Yankee Station represented by far the most intense and sustained air attack operation in the navy's history, with monthly demand for general purpose bombs ("iron bombs") greatly exceeding new production. The on-hand supply of bombs had dwindled throughout 1966 and become critically low by 1967, particularly the new 1000-lb. Mark 83, which the navy greatly favored for its power-to-size ratio: a carrier-launched A4 Skyhawk, the navy's standard ground attack aircraft of the period, could carry either a single 2000-lb. bomb, or two 1000-lb. bombs, with the ability to strike two separate hardened targets in a single sortie being seen as more desirable in most circumstances. Until 1971, the US Air Force's primary ground attack aircraft in Vietnam was the much heavier land-based F-105 Thunderchief which could carry 2 2,000-lb. M118 bombs and 4 750-lb. M117 bombs (both of which had large stockpiles available) simultaneously on a single sortie, and thus did not need to rely as heavily on the limited supply of 1000-lb. bombs the way the navy did.
 
In training, the damage control team specializing in on-deck firefighting for Forrestal (Damage Control Team #8, led by Chief Petty Officer Gerald Farrier) had been shown films of navy ordnance tests demonstrating how a 1000-lb bomb could be directly exposed to a jet fuel fire for full 10 minutes and still be extinguished and cooled without an explosive cook off.[4] However, these tests were conducted using the new Mark 83 1000 lb bombs which featured relatively stable Composition H6 explosive filler and thicker, heat-resistant cases compared to their predecessors; H6, which is still used in many types of naval ordnance due to its relative insensitivity to heat, shock and electricity, is also designed to deflagrate instead of detonate when it reaches its ignition point in a fire, either melting the case and producing no explosion at all or at most a subsonic low order detonation at a fraction of its normal power.[5]
 
The day before the accident (28 July), the Forrestal was resupplied with ordnance from the ammunition ship USS Diamond Head. The load included 16 1000-lb. AN-M65A1 "fat boy" bombs (so nicknamed because of their short, rotund shape), which the Diamond Head had picked up from the Subic Bay Naval Base and were intended for the next day's second bombing sortie. The batch of AN-M65A1 "fat boys" the Forrestal received were surplus from World War II, having spent roughly three decades exposed to the heat and humidity of the Philippine jungles while improperly stored in open-air Quonset huts at a disused ammunition dump on the periphery of Subic Bay Naval Base. Unlike the thick-cased Mark 83 bombs filled with Composition H6, the AN-M65A1 bombs were thin-skinned and filled with Composition B, an older explosive with greater shock and heat sensitivity; Composition B also had the dangerous tendency to become more powerful (up to 50% by weight) and more sensitive if it was old or improperly stored. The Forrestal's ordnance handlers had never even seen an AN-M65A1 before, and to their shock the bombs delivered from the Diamond Head were in terrible condition; coated with "decades of accumulated rust and grime" and still in their original packing crates (now moldy and rotten), some were stamped with production dates as early as 1935. Most worryingly of all, several bombs were seen to be leaking liquid paraffin phlegmatizing agent from their seams, an unmistakably dangerous sign the bomb's explosive filler had degenerated with excessive age and exposure to heat and moisture.[6]
 
According to A-4 Skyhawk pilot Lieutenant Rocky Pratt, the concern and objection induced in the Forrestal's ordnance handlers was striking, with many afraid to even handle the bombs; one officer wondered out loud if they would even survive the shock of a catapult assisted launch without spontaneously detonating, and others suggested they immediately jettison them into the sea.[7] Since no one wanted to be responsible for scrubbing the next day's missions, the decision was made by the Forrestal's ordnance officers to report the situation up the chain of command to Captain John Beling and inform him the bombs were, in their assessment, an imminent danger to the ship and should not be kept on board.
 
Faced with this, but still needing 1000-lb. bombs for the next day's missions, Beling demanded the Diamond Head take the AN-M65A1s back in exchange for new Mark 83s,[8] but was told by the Diamond Head that they had none available to give him. The AN-M65A1 bombs had been returned to service specifically because there were not enough Mark 83s to go around. According to one crew-member on the Diamond Head, when they had arrived at Subic Bay to pick up their load of ordnance for the carriers, the base personnel who had prepared the AN-M65A1 bombs for transfer assumed the Diamond Head had been ordered to dump them at sea on the way back to Yankee Station; when notified that the bombs were actually destined for active service in the carrier fleet, the commanding officer of the naval ordnance detachment at Subic Bay was so shocked he initially refused the transfer, believing a paperwork mistake must have been made. At risk of delaying the Diamond Head's departure, he refused to sign the transfer forms until receiving written orders from CINCPAC on the teletype explicitly absolving his detachment of responsibility for their terrible condition.
 
With orders to conduct strike missions over North Vietnam the next day and no replacement bombs available, Captain Beling reluctantly concluded he had no choice but to accept the AN-M65A1 bombs in their current condition. In one concession to the demands of the ordnance handlers, Beling did agree to store all 16 bombs alone on deck in the "bomb farm" area between the starboard rail and the carrier's island until they were loaded for the next day's missions; standard procedure would have been to store them in the ship's magazine with the other bombs (where an accidental detonation could easily destroy the entire ship).[9]
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redneck roy Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 9 years ago   May 11, '14 12:48am  
the Plat footage of the fire was standard Navy training fodder for years; until relatives of the deceased went through said training. as the video clearly show a sailor attacking the fire with an extinguisher and a bomb detonating - sending body parts flying.
 
I would post video of flight deck fire I was involved in in '88 if I could. We amazingly only lost two lives. At any rate - fires are only one of many hazards which would prevent suitable use as the OP suggests; many other reasons- no need to detail.
 
We spend a small fortune on saving our past - which in part is great - I am thankful for the many floating museums - but there is a point where we need to be reasonable - and salvage the old for the new.
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