Opportunity is there for all, in the free enterprise system. None of it is promised, owed or even deserved. But, wealth is achievable in this country...unless of course, the desire of achievement is extinguished by the demonizing of those who risk.

@Fairlane67: What's your take on the guy that indicated $35,000 a year is a lot of money? Granted he was comparing that salary to other nations, primarily in the third world, but even at that, do you think he's out of touch with the average person?

That's just it. The 35k was in comparison to the poverty of other nations. But to say, based on that, that he is out of touch...isn't fair to the overall discussion. It really doesn't matter who are what "in touch" really means, as long as his company is producing a profit, therefore growth and opportunity for employees and investors. It is not his obligation to pay everyone 100k a year in order to eliminate poverty...because as we know, 100k would immediately become the new poverty level.

The CEO said it in a way that people would not be receptive to, but $35k is a ton of money to most people in the world, and happiness is not really based on your income. Rather than a bunch of misdirected anger at rich people, people should take actions to improve their economic lot in life...was his point...I think. The other side argues that the cards are stacked against the little guy which makes it difficult to reach the next rung of the ladder or to make progress economically.---Everyone *can* be happy at $35,000 a year by lowering their expectations...but the question is, *should* everyone be happy at $35,000 a year?

@AtascocitaDotCom: When does that ever change, which is @Fairlane's astute observation.....keep raising the bottom and you have a new bottom....a perpetual "little guy"I realize the problem becomes circular at some point, but the ultimate answer is for each individual to attain achievements to distinguish themselves from the "bottom" and "make progress" in a near zero sum game.And there are plenty of anecdotes to prove the possible here. Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell, Barack Obama, Clarence Thomas, etc..

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@Clydepuckett -- You're absolutely right...there will always be a bottom class of people who, presumably, won't want to be there.On the other hand, we never want the US to turn in to a country like most 3rd world countries, where the model consists of the top 1% being phenomenally wealthy, and the rest of the 99% being phenomenally poor...an even gradation from poor to rich is ideal. A healthy middle class is what we need, and what we've been a model example to the rest of the world for since WWII.I think most independent, rational analysis shows that recently, over the past 15 years or so, the US has had a significant shift away from the "event gradation from rich to poor," toward a concentration of wealth among the wealthy, and a reduction of wealth among the middle class...we're nowhere near reaching the model of a 3rd world country, but I can understand some people being disconcerted that the move has been in that direction of skewed wealth, and that it can't continue indefinitely or we might experience a lot of trouble in the future.

@AtascocitaDotCom: I really appreciate the response. Your input is rare on this side of the river. I'd like to continue this discussion as I believe this is one of the most critical and wide ranging issues we face as a republic, country, people and citizens.I do believe, though, the root causes of your points may lead to non-sequitur (aka thread derail) points. It is impossible to discuss the past 15 years without a debate on the Federal Reserve, artificially low interest rates, declining work force (demographic trends), etc. As is said......correlation is not causation......usually. Might start my own thread tomorrow about these things....I'd appreciate your input.Welcome to Southside, pal

And now finally something with meat. Substance, root cause, evaluation - gentlemen, please continue. I'm looking now for this next potential thread.

I think the reasons why the middle class is shrinking are quite complex, and I don't think it's something we can simply elect our way out of. In my opinion one of the factors that has led to middle class erosion is the loss of good paying jobs not only in factories but white collar occupations as well. As everyone knows some of that is due to jobs being sent overseas. But another less talked about cause is technology. In the modern age companies with the help of computers have determined they can do more with less manpower and still maintain the bottom line.Jobs that once opened the door to the middle class that are no longer available or are rapidly declining in numbers include: travel agents, bank tellers, switch board operators, auto workers, steel workers, accountants, sanitation workers (newer garbage trucks require a driver and a robotic arm), paper machine operators/setters, film processors and one day perhaps even airline pilots as drones become more advanced. But those that gained wealth through business acumen or simply inherited it by winning the reproductive lottery are doing better than ever.Where does this leave us as a society? It is without question everyone is going to have to better prepare themselves for the workforce of the future through education either as a result of a college degree or enhanced technical skills. Any young person that believes only obtaining a high school diploma is sufficient is setting themselves up for catastrophe down the line. Because in the global society we now live, competition for better paying jobs will be intense. That being said many will find themselves on the outside looking in. What's the ultimate answer, I don't know. But what I do know is something must change. The last thing any nation needs is millions of people that feel no matter what they do there's no hope of upward mobility. That can be dangerous indeed.

@Clydepuckett: You are absolutely correct. Although the OP is desirous of having no political discussion...it hard not to find that the policies of politicians, corrupt the beauty of free enterprise.

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[quote-tag-mismatch]@FairlaneI would like to say that rocket didn't say he didn't want a "political discussion". However, I do think he didn't want this thread to turn into the usual Democrats vs. Republicans, we vs. them, thread. So far, it's been successful. I'm interested to see for how long.@nikkiole: Exactly Nik, to paraphrase MLK, we may have all come on different ships but we're in the same boat now. So the question is where do we go from here?

"The last thing any nation needs is millions of people that feel no matter what they do there's no hope of upward mobility. That can be dangerous indeed."We have had that for 200+ years! How many "woe is me" people have you met?People flock here from across the world everyday!!!Too many (already here) are not willing to make the sacrifices required to gain ground - for them - for their children - for their children's children. Work harder/work smarter/do more than is required/be the first one to arrive and the last one to leave.No one said it was going to be easy.The only constant is change.
Learn-invest in yourself and invest in your family.Supply and demand.
Do something in demand.
Do something few people are doing. I am so grateful I was born in the U.S. and not Cambodia/Ethiopia/Mexico/...... Every U.S. citizen is very lucky.
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